Comments on: The Beginning of the End in BPM? http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/ Bruce Silver on business process management Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:38:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: cakrit http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-888 cakrit Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:09:25 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-888 Not only is this not the beginning of the end, but it is not even the end of the beginning. I have no experience whatsoever with all the vendors you have mentioned, but I have suffered from the lack of progress in bridging the BPMN - BPEL gap in both IBM and Oracle products. When we were vendor-shopping for a SOA middleware in my last company (a medium-sized telco), IBM's exaggerated claims of seamless integration between the business view and the process execution convinced us to go with WebSphere. Unfortunately, the technology was at least five years from living up to the promise. The rest of the vendors (TIBCO, BEA, Oracle)did not even claim to offer an automated way to keep the two worlds in sync. Oracle is even further behind, still struggling to fully integrate its own BPEL engine with the Service Bus it acquired from BEA. BPMN is not their current concern and it seems like they don't understand what it can do for them. I really don't know if any of the major middleware players trully understand the promise of BPMN (maybe with the exception of IBM). On the other side of the spectrum, you have all these vendors that I had never heard of, probably because they can not compete with the behemoths in the BPEL - ESB world. By itself, BPMN is of very little use (capturing requirements). It is when these processes can be executed that you get true value and you need to accept that process execution will involve both BPEL for long-lived processes and ESB microflows. You need to incorporate SOAP interfaces, structured data and more exceptional paths than any business person cares to deal with. I hope that IBM will lead the way and perfect what they claim they already have. If they manage to get their software right, you will see a new generation of enterprise middleware, focused on the end-to-end business process. Not only is this not the beginning of the end, but it is not even the end of the beginning. I have no experience whatsoever with all the vendors you have mentioned, but I have suffered from the lack of progress in bridging the BPMN – BPEL gap in both IBM and Oracle products.
When we were vendor-shopping for a SOA middleware in my last company (a medium-sized telco), IBM’s exaggerated claims of seamless integration between the business view and the process execution convinced us to go with WebSphere. Unfortunately, the technology was at least five years from living up to the promise. The rest of the vendors (TIBCO, BEA, Oracle)did not even claim to offer an automated way to keep the two worlds in sync. Oracle is even further behind, still struggling to fully integrate its own BPEL engine with the Service Bus it acquired from BEA. BPMN is not their current concern and it seems like they don’t understand what it can do for them.

I really don’t know if any of the major middleware players trully understand the promise of BPMN (maybe with the exception of IBM). On the other side of the spectrum, you have all these vendors that I had never heard of, probably because they can not compete with the behemoths in the BPEL – ESB world.

By itself, BPMN is of very little use (capturing requirements). It is when these processes can be executed that you get true value and you need to accept that process execution will involve both BPEL for long-lived processes and ESB microflows. You need to incorporate SOAP interfaces, structured data and more exceptional paths than any business person cares to deal with.

I hope that IBM will lead the way and perfect what they claim they already have. If they manage to get their software right, you will see a new generation of enterprise middleware, focused on the end-to-end business process.

]]> By: bruce http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-887 bruce Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:23:59 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-887 Kunal, Excellent points. While many BPMS vendors talk about "enterprise BPM," very few have developed product features geared to marrying business empowerment with an enterprise-scale effort comprising dozens of projects simultaneously under development. Lombardi is one of those, and so it will be interesting to see if IBM can harness those features or consign Lombardi to the "departmental" box. If the big middleware vendors try to incorporate the good parts of the BPMS pureplays they acquire (instead of crushing the life out of them), all this consolidation could prove a good thing for BPM. Kunal,
Excellent points. While many BPMS vendors talk about “enterprise BPM,” very few have developed product features geared to marrying business empowerment with an enterprise-scale effort comprising dozens of projects simultaneously under development. Lombardi is one of those, and so it will be interesting to see if IBM can harness those features or consign Lombardi to the “departmental” box. If the big middleware vendors try to incorporate the good parts of the BPMS pureplays they acquire (instead of crushing the life out of them), all this consolidation could prove a good thing for BPM.

]]> By: kunalrshah http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-886 kunalrshah Wed, 20 Jan 2010 03:49:52 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-886 I believe strongly that there is a much larger play here. Today's BPMS products mentioned above - didn't quite, truly provide for a business empowered solution. Anyone who has seriously applied these on many many different initiatives - would agree with that. Don't get me wrong, these are great products and provide a great value. But, they missed the point on complete "Process Management Lifecycle"; and many other implementation limitations that hinder a large scale roll-out. While I fear that company's such as ORACLE and IBM would squander the opportunities - that they have the power to realize. I also believe that a "larger scheme of BPM related things" are in play. And, I would suggest that IBM is best positioned to leverage this opportunity - among the bigger (biggest of plahyers). Having said that, there are still companies such Appian - which are not "shopping" for a buyer as they are able to sustain themselves on their own. Jaan Baan's Cordys - is a sleeping giant in that regard. In the open source arena - I would like to see Intalio|BPM succeed as well. Certainly, an interesting dicussion or debate to have. Only time will tell. I believe strongly that there is a much larger play here. Today’s BPMS products mentioned above – didn’t quite, truly provide for a business empowered solution. Anyone who has seriously applied these on many many different initiatives – would agree with that. Don’t get me wrong, these are great products and provide a great value.

But, they missed the point on complete “Process Management Lifecycle”; and many other implementation limitations that hinder a large scale roll-out.

While I fear that company’s such as ORACLE and IBM would squander the opportunities – that they have the power to realize. I also believe that a “larger scheme of BPM related things” are in play. And, I would suggest that IBM is best positioned to leverage this opportunity – among the bigger (biggest of plahyers).

Having said that, there are still companies such Appian – which are not “shopping” for a buyer as they are able to sustain themselves on their own. Jaan Baan’s Cordys – is a sleeping giant in that regard. In the open source arena – I would like to see Intalio|BPM succeed as well.

Certainly, an interesting dicussion or debate to have. Only time will tell.

]]> By: BPM-Guide.de It’s Business Process Management » BPMS: Die nächste Generation http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-885 BPM-Guide.de It’s Business Process Management » BPMS: Die nächste Generation Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:13:43 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-885 [...] Progress Software mit Savvion vorgenommen. Wirklich interessant daran war für mich vor allem der Blog Post von Bruce Silver dazu, und der Kommentar des Produktmanagers von Appian. Keine wirklich neuen Erkenntnisse (in dem [...] [...] Progress Software mit Savvion vorgenommen. Wirklich interessant daran war für mich vor allem der Blog Post von Bruce Silver dazu, und der Kommentar des Produktmanagers von Appian. Keine wirklich neuen Erkenntnisse (in dem [...]

]]> By: Progress Software ????? Savvion ?? $49??? « ***** http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-884 Progress Software ????? Savvion ?? $49??? « ***** Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:50:43 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-884 [...] Progress Software ????? Savvion ?? $49??? ???? ??????? ? ?????????? [...] [...] Progress Software ????? Savvion ?? $49??? ???? ??????? ? ?????????? [...]

]]> By: Future of BPM « Nasir Naqvi’s Blog http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-883 Future of BPM « Nasir Naqvi’s Blog Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:43:29 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-883 [...] this too. http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/ Possibly related posts: (automatically [...]<br> [...] this too. http://www.brsilver.com/2010/0.....nd-in-bpm/ Possibly related posts: (automatically [...]

]]> By: Tweets that mention The Beginning of the End in BPM? « BPMS Watch -- Topsy.com http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-882 Tweets that mention The Beginning of the End in BPM? « BPMS Watch -- Topsy.com Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:22:50 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-882 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Sandy Kemsley, Eric D. Schabell, kenlacrosse, Andy Winskill, Jose Gabriel García and others. Jose Gabriel García said: RT @JGabrielGarcia: Bruce Silver: ¿El principio del fin en #BPM? http://bit.ly/6A2i3C. Atencion al comentario de Appian al post. I agree. [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Sandy Kemsley, Eric D. Schabell, kenlacrosse, Andy Winskill, Jose Gabriel García and others. Jose Gabriel García said: RT @JGabrielGarcia: Bruce Silver: ¿El principio del fin en #BPM? http://bit.ly/6A2i3C. Atencion al comentario de Appian al post. I agree. [...]

]]> By: johnreynolds http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-881 johnreynolds Wed, 13 Jan 2010 01:57:29 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-881 This is certainly the end of the beginning... Compare this to the maturation of the DBMS, once there were scads of offerings, now there are really only three enterprise choices (Oracle, MSSQL, DB2)... Looks like we'll only have three real enterprise choices for BPM. This is certainly the end of the beginning… Compare this to the maturation of the DBMS, once there were scads of offerings, now there are really only three enterprise choices (Oracle, MSSQL, DB2)… Looks like we’ll only have three real enterprise choices for BPM.

]]> By: Column 2 : links for 2010-01-12 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-880 Column 2 : links for 2010-01-12 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:08:30 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-880 [...] The Beginning of the End in BPM? « BPMS Watch Bruce Silver on Progress-Savvion acquisition. “I think it?s safe to say this marks a real turning point in the market for BPMS. To me it is a disquieting one, as it suggests the failure of BPM?s ‘business empowerment’ promise to translate into sustainable revenue for the platform vendor.” Also see comment by Malcolm Ross (of Appian) at the end. (tags: bpm) [...] [...] The Beginning of the End in BPM? « BPMS Watch Bruce Silver on Progress-Savvion acquisition. “I think it?s safe to say this marks a real turning point in the market for BPMS. To me it is a disquieting one, as it suggests the failure of BPM?s ‘business empowerment’ promise to translate into sustainable revenue for the platform vendor.” Also see comment by Malcolm Ross (of Appian) at the end. (tags: bpm) [...]

]]> By: Another One Bites the Dust: Progress Consumes Savvion http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/comment-page-1/#comment-879 Another One Bites the Dust: Progress Consumes Savvion Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:31:20 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2010/01/11/the-beginning-of-the-end-in-bpm/br#comment-879 [...] we need only to look at what happened to Fuego (BEA) and Staffware (TIBCO). And, I also worry, with Bruce Silver ?that the notion of business-empowered implementation, those BPMS vendors? sole reason for [...] [...] we need only to look at what happened to Fuego (BEA) and Staffware (TIBCO). And, I also worry, with Bruce Silver ?that the notion of business-empowered implementation, those BPMS vendors? sole reason for [...]

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