Comments on: What's Wrong With This Picture? Part 2 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/ Bruce Silver on business process management Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:38:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: bruce http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-238 bruce Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:55:51 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-238 Thanks Rasto for your comment. My main point was about the visual representation of sequence flows out of a gateway. Yes they are "conditional" but they should not have the diamond on the tail, which is just for conditional sequence flows out of an activity. You are talking about the attribute of the sequence flow, unconditional, conditional, or default. I agree that this is a property of the sequence flow not the gateway. Thanks Rasto for your comment. My main point was about the visual representation of sequence flows out of a gateway. Yes they are “conditional” but they should not have the diamond on the tail, which is just for conditional sequence flows out of an activity. You are talking about the attribute of the sequence flow, unconditional, conditional, or default. I agree that this is a property of the sequence flow not the gateway.

]]> By: Rasto http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-237 Rasto Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:06:26 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-237 Nice articles and comments on BPMN, Bruce. The BPMN spec is currently not in a "good shape", therefore, missunderstanding is very possible. I want to comment on paragraph 4. Just to pinpoint out, that you are not always right, too. You write "An exclusive gateway (diamond with an X inside) means that only one of its outgoing sequence flows is enabled, based on the gateway condition (a property of the gateway, not a property of the sequence flow). So to correct errors 1-3, get rid of the sequence flow conditions (little diamonds)." The specs on page 74 states that the data based gateway has 0-n gates and each specified gate MUST have an associated sequence flow. The condition attribute of the sequence flow MUST be set to expression and a valid condition expression must be specified. So... the condition id a property of each particular flow, not the gateway. Regards, Rasto. Nice articles and comments on BPMN, Bruce. The BPMN spec is currently not in a “good shape”, therefore, missunderstanding is very possible.

I want to comment on paragraph 4. Just to pinpoint out, that you are not always right, too. You write “An exclusive gateway (diamond with an X inside) means that only one of its outgoing sequence flows is enabled, based on the gateway condition (a property of the gateway, not a property of the sequence flow). So to correct errors 1-3, get rid of the sequence flow conditions (little diamonds).”

The specs on page 74 states that the data based gateway has 0-n gates and each specified gate MUST have an associated sequence flow. The condition attribute of the sequence flow MUST be set to expression and a valid condition expression must be specified. So… the condition id a property of each particular flow, not the gateway.

Regards,
Rasto.

]]> By: BPMS Watch » What’s Wrong With This Picture, Redux http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-236 BPMS Watch » What’s Wrong With This Picture, Redux Thu, 30 Nov 2006 05:31:52 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-236 [...] And last, but not least, there’s ILOG.  I blogged about that one in September.  Fifteen BPMN spec violations in their sample process model!  That has to be some kind of record. [...] [...] And last, but not least, there’s ILOG.  I blogged about that one in September.  Fifteen BPMN spec violations in their sample process model!  That has to be some kind of record. [...]

]]> By: blwilliams http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-235 blwilliams Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:11:03 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-235 Thanks Bruce. Thanks Bruce.

]]> By: bruce http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-234 bruce Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:50:18 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-234 Per the BPMN spec p47 the only event types allowed on the boundary of an activity are: Message, Timer, Error, Cancel, Compensation, Rule, and Multiple. You cannot use a Link event in this way, so the example you cite is incorrect. A Link intermediate event is only valid in a normal flow, where it represents either the source or target of a "goto" in the diagram, paired with another Link event with the same LinkId attribute. According to Stephen White, the semantics of Link in BPMN 1.0 are a little flaky and will be changed a bit in BPMN 1.1. Per the BPMN spec p47 the only event types allowed on the boundary of an activity are: Message, Timer, Error, Cancel, Compensation, Rule, and Multiple. You cannot use a Link event in this way, so the example you cite is incorrect. A Link intermediate event is only valid in a normal flow, where it represents either the source or target of a “goto” in the diagram, paired with another Link event with the same LinkId attribute. According to Stephen White, the semantics of Link in BPMN 1.0 are a little flaky and will be changed a bit in BPMN 1.1.

]]> By: blwilliams http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-233 blwilliams Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:20:35 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-233 Errors 11 and 12. Further Questions around Intermediate Events/ Exception Flows. Can anybody help me clarify the use of intermediate events? The BPMN spec states that when an intermediate event is placed on a boundary of an activity then an exception flow is created. The examples then show either a Timer, Error, Cancel or Compensation symbol. My question is - are these the only symbols that are permissible on the boundary of an activity? I have seen in use a link event attached to the boundary of one sub-process, linked to an ad hoc process containing other tasks, to indicate which event in the sub-process triggers the the ad-hoc process. I hope this is clear... Errors 11 and 12. Further Questions around Intermediate Events/ Exception Flows.

Can anybody help me clarify the use of intermediate events? The BPMN spec states that when an intermediate event is placed on a boundary of an activity then an exception flow is created. The examples then show either a Timer, Error, Cancel or Compensation symbol. My question is – are these the only symbols that are permissible on the boundary of an activity?
I have seen in use a link event attached to the boundary of one sub-process, linked to an ad hoc process containing other tasks, to indicate which event in the sub-process triggers the the ad-hoc process.
I hope this is clear…

]]> By: bruce http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-232 bruce Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:50:59 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-232 Thanks for the encouragement. I'll probably try to do it... after I've got the course material done. Thanks for the encouragement. I’ll probably try to do it… after I’ve got the course material done.

]]> By: VernonS http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-231 VernonS Fri, 22 Sep 2006 03:16:21 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-231 I'd like to second Steinar's notion. A book on the topic would be most welcome. I’d like to second Steinar’s notion. A book on the topic would be most welcome.

]]> By: sca http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-230 sca Fri, 15 Sep 2006 06:03:48 +0000 http://www.brsilver.com/2006/09/14/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-part-2/br#comment-230 This is really great stuff, Bruce. I hope that you at some stage will consider turning some of the BPMN training material into a book which could be called something like "BPMN distilled" - at the moment there is no such authoritative intro to the practical and correct use of BPMN. Steinar Carlsen Computas AS This is really great stuff, Bruce. I hope that you at some stage will consider turning some of the BPMN training material into a book which could be called something like “BPMN distilled” – at the moment there is no such authoritative intro to the practical and correct use of BPMN.

Steinar Carlsen
Computas AS

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